tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post7809486288188035435..comments2023-12-26T19:43:01.770-08:00Comments on FAMILY PRESERVATION not Adoption Separaration: Lessons Learned From Hindsight and DefeatMirah Ribenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13626873757236976251noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-6656718152685184502010-03-21T08:26:14.245-07:002010-03-21T08:26:14.245-07:00MaryAnne asked how a new org would differ from BN....MaryAnne asked how a new org would differ from BN. BN - which began with a strong theoretical differentiation between one's right to their OBC and search and "medical and psychological need to know" does not maintain that distinction in their mission and blurs the lines by using the term "records":<br /><br />Bastard Nation advocates for the civil and human rights of adult citizens who were adopted as children. Millions of North Americans are prohibited by law from accessing personal records that pertain to their historical, genetic and legal identities. Such records are held by their governments in secret and without accountability, due solely to the fact that they were adopted.<br /><br />Bastard Nation campaigns for the restoration of their right to access their records. The right to know one's identity is primarily a political issue directly affected by the practice of sealed records adoptions. Please join us in our efforts to end a hidden legacy of shame, fear and venality.Mirah Ribennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-49680835740566431452010-03-20T10:29:29.785-07:002010-03-20T10:29:29.785-07:00How about an early stage - pre-op transgendered pe...How about an early stage - pre-op transgendered person? Say, for instance Chas Bono, formerly Chastity? <br /><br />Do they deserve the right to identify their gender or do YOU or anyone else?<br /><br /> What do you care what I call myself? I am quite comfortable and confident of who and what I am.<br /><br /> Ironic that someone who hides behind anonymity would have a problem with my identity! ROFL!!Mirah Ribennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-5074002012168072332010-03-20T05:52:06.459-07:002010-03-20T05:52:06.459-07:00"If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, ..."If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck........." must we respect its right to self-identify as an eagle?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-8287767475099508522010-03-18T15:34:37.763-07:002010-03-18T15:34:37.763-07:00In my opinion:
Anti-adoption feels like a negativ...In my opinion:<br /><br />Anti-adoption feels like a negative term. It seems to imply hating and blaming and being against adoption and venting anger.<br /><br />Family Preservation - for me - encompasses far more. It entails working to support families in crisis and also recognizes a need for and suggests alternative solutions for children whose families cannot provide safe care for them.<br /><br />F.P. seeks POSITIVE and realistic solutions for the future, rather than being stuck on anger at the past and seeking apologies for being victimized. As you will note if you read the Family Preservation link under the title of this blog - there are many organizations working toward family preservation that one would never confuse with being anti-adoption at all.<br /><br />These are differences that I feel. That does not mean that someone who choses to label themselves as anti-adoption feels similarly and sees their mission as limited. They my in fact just prefer a more "in your face" identification, as BN chose to do.<br /><br />Each of deserve the right to identify ourselves as we see fit,and this I asked not refer to my blog as anti-adoption. Of course, i have no control of what others will do and say. Pres Obama is labeled all kinds of names. The more you do, the more detractors. (Not that I am comparing myself to the President!)AdoptAuthorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916713887846028762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-56002841085040170232010-03-18T12:52:55.462-07:002010-03-18T12:52:55.462-07:00"There is a finer line that both of those lab..."There is a finer line that both of those labels do not express."<br />It's so fine it's invisible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-70367045228206162892010-03-17T15:13:42.453-07:002010-03-17T15:13:42.453-07:00Thanks. I'm getting old. Can't remember my...Thanks. I'm getting old. Can't remember my own words, but yes. I do think when push comes to shove they are the primary ones catered to.<br /><br />The fact is that adopters' demand - and the fees they are willing to pay - drive all adoption. This everyone whose livelihood feeds off adoption - directly and indirectly - are beholden to the SOURCE. <br /><br />Adoptees do not support adoption, nor do parents who relinquish.<br /><br />Thus, any agency and many organization that wants to remain alive will be less likely to anything to offend adopters.... with the exception of BN, CUB and origins-USA and smallr local support groups....who are usually BROKE! :-)) (We're not poor, but we are "thrifty" bunch!)<br /><br />Supporting access to the OBC, as you and I have both noted is so basic that its hard for anyone, no matter where they fall right to left on the adoption reform continuum - to oppose! That's the beauty of this one simple and focused goal. If I could only get the "reformers" here in NJ to understand that now! :-))<br /><br />I would also refer you to FAQs - link on top, and this post: http://familypreservation.blogspot.com/2010/01/nomenclatures-and-euphemism-accusations.html<br /><br />I do not like being labeled "anti-adoption" because t has pejorative connotations, much like pro-choice supporters object to being called "pro abortion." There is a finer line that both of those labels do not express. Pro-choicers are not like rah-rah let's all have abortions...nor do I believe that every mother should keep her child, even if she is unfit - as many relate anti-adoptionists to be (even though *none* I know of are that radical).<br /><br />I hope you understand and might honor my right to self-identify and not be pigeon-holed with labels that have negative connotations and extremism that I do not share. <br /><br />Peace...AdoptAuthorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916713887846028762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-8548364380993386942010-03-17T14:40:11.565-07:002010-03-17T14:40:11.565-07:00That is what I took from your statement. It was th...That is what I took from your statement. It was the *but* in that statement:<br /><br />Donaldson has clout to...but they all have a goal of "ethical adoption" and they cater to adopters...because....that's where the buck$ are!O Solo Mamahttp://osolomama.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-87791746837671947292010-03-17T14:13:20.528-07:002010-03-17T14:13:20.528-07:00Yes...keeping it simple and focused i beleive will...Yes...keeping it simple and focused i beleive will help us overcome our dfferences that we seem to spend an extraidinary amlunt of time focusing on instead.<br /><br />But MOI? Donaldson and adoptive parents? While I don't totally disagree (likewise the AAC - and the reason is that's who has the $$ to pay dues, attend conferences and donate more than other "triads"), but did I really say that??? I don't recall. Especially not in light of Adam's clear statement on this issue. To that I say HOORAY!AdoptAuthorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916713887846028762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-8375043992436002342010-03-17T14:06:02.109-07:002010-03-17T14:06:02.109-07:00I wasn't commenting on the people who leave co...I wasn't commenting on the people who leave comments--just the general tone and approach of your blog others like it and your own comment that cooperating with Donaldson amounts to cooperating with the adopters. The fact that we agree on OBC is great. That's why I think any political lobby should stick to OBC and stick to talking about that issue, i.e., a tight message. Then many, many partners can be involved.O Solo Mamahttp://osolomama.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-76709392749897257332010-03-17T13:19:54.964-07:002010-03-17T13:19:54.964-07:00OH Solo,
Interesting that you label the blog by t...OH Solo,<br /><br />Interesting that you label the blog by those who comment and call the blog anti-adoption my position on OBC is the same as yours.AdoptAuthorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916713887846028762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-73972657642403096792010-03-17T09:37:43.679-07:002010-03-17T09:37:43.679-07:00About Change.org. I don't believe you could ac...About Change.org. I don't believe you could actually vote twice because I gave it the college try and I wasn't allowed to! <br /><br />Amanda said:<br /><br />“The #1 issue that deters adoptee rights? STUPID Adoption stereotypes. Society is overly-sympathetic and overcome with anything that undermines the adoptive family or offends infertile prospective adopters.”<br /><br />As the mother of a child with NO birth certificate, my feeling is a bit different. I think it would be better to reach out to sympathetic adopters and get them onside with OBCs. Open access is the most logical and most airtight argument there is. Once it is established by law that birth identity cannot be erased, that access to information is protected by law, that there are TWO legally recognized sets of parents, that's automatically a game-changer. It automatically changes how adoption is viewed and practised. <br /><br />From where I stand, this blog and others are at core anti-adoption. So if you're talking about not preaching to the choir, that (anti-adoption) is one the public will resist. And every time somebody keeps saying we have to get the “truth” out to people . . . that usually doesn't work either. Causes work when they connect to what people already believe. That is why OBC access has the potential to be such a great argument. I believe that those who are working to abolish adoption (and not just reduce the circumstances that lead to it) should declare themselves openly and distinguish their campaign from open records. <br />Anyhoo . . . nobody wants to be part of a cause that has a big hate-on for them. So I really think you're back to square one.O Solo Mamahttp://osolomama.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-76873447681177039612010-03-15T19:15:24.291-07:002010-03-15T19:15:24.291-07:00Ah, maryanne, while I was just a "kid" i...Ah, maryanne, while I was just a "kid" in the 70s, I barely remember that ALMA court case. I was in college then and sent in testimony. <br /><br />I think we should do it again. People may be more receptive to the class action suit now as we have more knowledge base and more people in the movement. We have grown, if we stay focused on the goal. The other issues can be dealt with in smaller groups and there's never an end to the topics to write and talk about. It is time for action!<br /><br />Great post, Mirah.Joan M Wheelerhttp://forbiddenfamily.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-41947351441354242992010-03-15T07:13:29.967-07:002010-03-15T07:13:29.967-07:00ALMA was first and always a search and support gro...ALMA was first and always a search and support group. They also got involved with trying a class action lawsuit in NY, which did not go anywhere. Pam Hasegawa was one of the plaintiffs if anyone wants more information about it. You can email her at pamgawa@optonline.net<br /><br />ALMA still exists and has a registry:<br />http://www.almasociety.org/<br /><br />Hope this is helpful, Amanda. Geez, I feel older than dirt:-)maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-8886111036447672852010-03-14T19:56:26.948-07:002010-03-14T19:56:26.948-07:00MaryAnne can speak more about ALMA than anyone. Sh...MaryAnne can speak more about ALMA than anyone. She WAS there! <br /><br />Whatever they did and failed can be tried again. <br /><br /> The Equal Rights Amendment was first proposed in 1923 and wasn't passed until 1972. They didn't give up; didn't decide it was impossible so why try again and again and again.AdoptAuthorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916713887846028762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-81964592343932783162010-03-14T19:26:11.408-07:002010-03-14T19:26:11.408-07:00There once was such an organization. ALMA would s...There once was such an organization. ALMA would sue states and take them to the supreme court. They tried everything from slavery, to 1st Ammendment deprivation of useful informaton, to 14th Ammendent Equal Protection Clause violation....every arguement you could think of and were shot down. They eventually became a search and reunite organization--largely because, indeed, those who happen upon our cause often do so when they are trying to reunite.<br /><br />To disclaimer myself there, I am only 24 years old. I was not even alive when ALMA placed said law suit so I only know the details from the professional journals on the issues I've read in my Social Work career and studies (I was not, nor will ever be, an adoption worker BTW, for anyone who may be concerned).<br /><br />I agree with your points. I am part of the lead of the Adoptee Rights Movement here in Pennsylvania, founding and heading the Advocates of Pennsylvania Adoptee Rights (www.adopteerightspa.org). Many individuals contact me in reunion persuits. Many individuals offer to support the effort on the basis of what reunion can provide. Those who have been in the "game" a long time who understand the issues are so tired of the insensitivity of friends, the scrutiny of family and the ignorance of the public and legislators that they tire from constantly being beat down.<br /><br />The #1 issue that deters adoptee rights? STUPID Adoption stereotypes. Society is overly-sympathetic and overcome with anything that undermines the adoptive family or offends infertile prospective adopters. Research has estimated that 81% of prospective adopters adopt to create a family due to frustrations of infertility. Research has found that idealized expectations are made of adoptees---we are NOT supposed to be out there finding our real families, we are supposed to be respecting the family that "rescued" us from "disaster!" Society is SO afraid to enforce any sentiment that might make adopters "feel bad." This is what the anti-movement is about: securing adoptive families as a marketing plan to adopters. The more "permenency" and lack of interferance from natural families that can be guaranteed to adopters the adoption agencies can get, the better. It's all about keeping the industry alive, unethically managing dependence, and catering to the money and power-holders (the adopters). Any movement toward access to truthfulness is a threat to that. Truthfulness threatens to expose all of the misdeeds against women they've done in order to perpetuate this horrible industry.<br /><br />We need people who are strong, who can take all of this nonsense and who can keep going. Our characters will be attacked and our mental stability as adoptees and First Mothers WILL be questioned. Personal insults will be made and our adulthood will be put on stand...but we MUST keep going on.The Declassified Adopteehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16726376584015902627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-55386647804755040142010-03-14T17:32:04.922-07:002010-03-14T17:32:04.922-07:00Yes..."putting it out there" is what I a...Yes..."putting it out there" is what I am doing.AdoptAuthorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916713887846028762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-44815512613051937262010-03-14T17:07:30.102-07:002010-03-14T17:07:30.102-07:00MaryAnne says:
"BN has always had the focus ...MaryAnne says:<br /><br />"BN has always had the focus you want, on rights, not reunion. But you think they need a more neutral name. How would this new group with the same focus as BN but a more neutral name get many more people involved, generate many more donations, influence legislators? Step 2 is still missing."<br /><br />My belief is that the name Bastard Nation is a turn off to the 'Good" adoptee who is afraid of OFFENDING. A name that focuses son the human rights aspect MIGHT help. Of course, whatever it is called it takes WORK and people willing to do it. And it takes $$.<br /><br />BUT...I never cease to be blown away at the amount of time people in our "movement' find to talk to one another on email lists, at conferences, via Facebook, blogs, etc. Talk, talk, talk. Everyone's got an opinion. Easy to start your own blog and express your now opinion - but we lack cohesiveity (is that a word?). On erasonis arguing about the nuances.<br /><br />KEEPING IT SIMPLR hopefully does away with disagreements and focuses everyone and vreates a coghesvie org that has a possbility of making an impact!<br /><br />Or, we could sit and say it'll never work, so why try and we'd be right - cause that will SURELY accomplish nothing! <br /><br />Must be great being a pessimist cause you can't fail at doing nothing at all and are always right about being a failure at everything and anything. It most appealing. Almost makes me wish I could. But I'm a cockeyed optimist...otherwise I'd have taken the cyanide long ago!AdoptAuthorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916713887846028762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-87133121091219132532010-03-14T16:55:53.860-07:002010-03-14T16:55:53.860-07:00So...what is it you are going to "try"? ...So...what is it you are going to "try"? I assume it would be you starting this new organization since it is your idea. If as you say there are many young people on Facebook interested in adoption, would they be interested in joining such a group? Giving money to it? Why not put it out there and see?<br /><br />I don't think yet another group would interest those who already belong to several of the existing ones. This really is not anything new.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-73134415879205790482010-03-14T15:50:30.599-07:002010-03-14T15:50:30.599-07:00By "Increase Our Base" - I mean reach ou...By "Increase Our Base" - I mean reach out to adoptees - the rest of t 2.5% beyond the 3K who voted and are already involved!!<br /><br />"We can’t get the groups we have now to work together, another one will only be seen as “competition”, because as you said, we have financial problems."<br /><br />This comes under the category already responded to to MaryAnne: If we never try, we'll surely never succeed!<br /><br />Thanks CULLY!!AdoptAuthorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916713887846028762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-56141040347550558412010-03-14T15:45:26.855-07:002010-03-14T15:45:26.855-07:00You echo my point that no one outside our circle w...You echo my point that no one outside our circle was being made aware of the change.org site! We do not reach the general public, which I see as critical. (I had submitted an op ed for that purpose, but alas it was not accepted.)<br /><br />I too was moved by the new TV show produced by Lisa Kudrow. It shows how natural the desire to know is...and these people are finding great, great, great, great grandparents and adoptees cannot find their mOTHER!<br /><br />Yes, STAY ON TRACK - KEEP IT SIMPLE AND FOCUSED!AdoptAuthorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16916713887846028762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-18544786307599444862010-03-14T15:27:03.405-07:002010-03-14T15:27:03.405-07:00Part Two -
“I love, admire, respect and have th...Part Two - <br /><br /> “I love, admire, respect and have the highest regard for Marley.” Me, too… <br /><br />“Increase our base”? If the baby brokers, shame and blame mongers, and maternity home promoters have their way our “base” will be increased… but it will also be silent and fearful because of what those baby brokers, shame and blame mongers, and maternity home promoters and owners are. Our situation has often been compared to dog breeding… unscrupulous dog breeding – we have the dog brokers that travel around the country collecting puppies, that are then sold to “pet stores” which in turn sell the puppies to customers. It’s All about the money.<br />The problem I see with new organization is that it will just be one more thing/group that confuses people. We can’t get the groups we have now to work together, another one will only be seen as “competition”, because as you said, we have financial problems. We have misappropriations of funds and embezzlement within the very groups that present themselves and that we expect to be working toward the same goal and supporting our efforts whether they be reform or reunion.<br />Paraphrased - “I see the MAJOR purpose of this organization to be EDUCATION and ADVERTISING - disseminating op eds, articles, press releases, interviews etc, to educate the public and adoptees about the discrimination and denial of rights. A long-term goal: the possibility of a class action suit.”<br />Right on Sister!! My contribution to the name… National Human Rights Association of Adoptees… just an idea.<br />“Sadly, some sate reformers seek access to “records” which muddies this clarity… It muddies the issue, gets it off equality and a human rights issues, and losses the support of the ACLU and many mothers who otherwise support adoptee access to their OBC.” An excellent point and one that needs to be addressed. <br />Thank you, Mirah, once again for making us Think with our Brains. CullyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-39570318724682675282010-03-14T15:25:32.498-07:002010-03-14T15:25:32.498-07:00Part One -
I think you just may have hit the nail...Part One - <br />I think you just may have hit the nail on the head is that we are preaching to the choir. We need to find a way to educate the GP about the realities of adoption practices and the life-long effects that adoption can have on adult adoptees.<br />Your point that in our country 58% of Americans are touched by adoption yet our idea on Change.org garnered only 2,500 votes brings up two issues – How many people are aware of Change.org and the opportunity it offers; and, How hard are those that oppose Adult Adoptee Access willing to work to protect the industry that supports them??<br /> “It is approximately SIXTY YEARS “we” have been fighting this battle beginning with Jean Paton in the 1950s – almost immediately after they were sealed. In those six decades we have succeeded in getting a handful of states have some form of openness” averages out to one per decade. If we continue at the same pace it will take us 460 years to be successful in al states…” I, personally, was deeply moved this last Friday, by Emmitt Smith’s search on Ancestry.com’s show, Who Do You Think You Are… his ancestors voyage on slave ships – our “ancestors” voyages on “orphan trains”… his ancestors personal history being segregated from white history – our personal histories being sealed while non-adopted citizens have full access… the feeling of being separate and not good enough or somehow suspect because they were “colored” and we are adopted.<br />Step One: LOOKING AT WHAT STYMIES US<br />You listed four very important things to be sure, yet I would say the number one things is – We do not stay on point. <br />We get side tracked with issues that do not address our primary goal. We want Adult Adoptee Access, but we get caught up in debates about abortion, which is a totally separate issue since there are laws already in place governing it, and Adult Adoptee Access has been shown to have no negative affect on the abortion rate. We get caught up in concerns about unwanted contact, which again is a non-issue because there are laws already in effect that protect all of us from “unwanted contact.” And, we get sucked into debates about children who were removed from their family of origin, and/or children born to people of questionable moral or drug related practices (or what may have been portrayed as “questionable practices”). The children who were removed from their families should be protected as long as they are children and the practices of the parent(s) of a relinquished child are just that – the practices of the parents; but, more importantly – our goal, the point of our concerns, does not – DOES NOT – involve the child. Our concerns are about the Civil Rights of the ADULT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-25483239188559671532010-03-13T18:23:18.337-08:002010-03-13T18:23:18.337-08:00Your rhetoric simply doesn't make any sense to...Your rhetoric simply doesn't make any sense to the average person except for the OBC argument. That can be made sensible. The rest of folks have real trouble wondering what we're on about. Quite frankly, it's a lost cause.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-80780847322484489422010-03-13T17:49:53.183-08:002010-03-13T17:49:53.183-08:00BN has always had the focus you want, on rights, n...BN has always had the focus you want, on rights, not reunion. But you think they need a more neutral name. How would this new group with the same focus as BN but a more neutral name get many more people involved, generate many more donations, influence legislators? Step 2 is still missing.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2384966947084602158.post-52967202598389815502010-03-13T17:05:34.141-08:002010-03-13T17:05:34.141-08:00"Our message and focus must be clear and simp..."Our message and focus must be clear and simple: Adoptees deserve the same rights as non-adopted persons regarding access to their own OBC."<br /><br />Agreed. It has to be clear, concise, and easy to remember. <br /><br />And a name such as "National Adoptee Human Rights Association" gets the human rights aspect in there. That also opens up funding possibilities from human rights organizations.<br /><br />Funding, and professional management, is necessary. <br /><br />Good luck!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com